Wednesday (14 Oct) - The "I REALLY Hate Jousting" Post
Warning - this is not a rant, but more like stream of consciousness thinking as I try to figure out what I'm doing wrong when it comes to jousting, which is just another form of special combat using the abilities of a mount, pet, or other third element. I suggest reading the below late at night as a sedative or during the day when you're ready for that nap.
Well, it only took one day for JB to unlearn everything she'd done on the jousting field. Five tries and she was bested every time, while those around her flitted back and forth across the field, their npc opponents clearly confused and totally outmatched. JB can still do the other three dailies, and can still eventually collect the 25 Valiant seals she needs to advance. But those seals will only buy her a Challenge match, ie, a joust. If JB can't win those matches at this beginning level, then this whole thing will be a waste of time.
The problem with jousting is the same as in one on one pvp. I suck at it. I can't get the hang of it. I can't find a combination of mouse/keyboard actions that work for me. I'm left handed. The mouse is on the left side of the keyboard. In normal play I use the mouse for button clicking and for general forward movement. In WoW moving with the mouse requires holding down both the left and right mouse buttons. Turning the mouse with both buttons pressed turn the player to the left or right (and can also be used to the change the viewing angle), but always moving forward. There is no "go backwards" using the mouse, and no turning in place (must be moving). To compensate for that, I use the arrow keys with my right hand to handle quick turns and backing up. Used together, I can move very effectively. Those who play the game (any keyboard/mouse game probably) will say, Wait a minute! If both hands are used for movement, how do you cast spells or do anything else that requires clicking on something or pressing a key? Well, I stop moving. Really? you say, because that's when you die. And their's my conundrum.
This is not an issue in raids or in most quests. If it were I would have given up the game a long time ago. But for some things, it is a huge problem.
So, I've tried different combinations of things to try to find something that works consistently for these matches. And if I figure that out, I think there would be a pretty significant improvement in pvp, too.
My usual style does sometimes work, as evidence Tuesday's three match wins. But it's not consistent. In between moving I am clicking commands, which is slower than banging on keys, and has the added disadvantage of sometimes causing me to lose the target (ie, missing the button I want to click on, and hitting something else, which the game then thinks is the target I want, or no target at all), and that means whatever I'm trying to do has no effect on the target and also takes time to re-acquire.
I tried using only the arrow keys for movement and continuing to click commands with the mouse. The arrow keys do give full range of motion, but it's a technique I'd have to work on until it became more natural. It wouldn't change the problem I have with clicking, though.
The command keys for the mount (and most other special control elements of the game - the machines in the Flame Leviathon fight, for example) use the number keys. Key 1 is the Thrust command, for example. So, I tried to do what I do when I drive a siege engine. I use the mouse for movement and with my right hand use the number keys. It's a little awkward since both are on the left side of the keyboard, but I can manage the fights just fine that way.
Ok, I know what you're thinking. What about the number pad, which is on the right side of the keyboard? I've never used that for movement; never needed to. In normal play, however, most of those keys are tied to macros for healing spells and combinations. And I can't think how the pad would help with jousting.
Not being right-handed, I can only guess how ya'll do things. At a guess, though, and from what I've picked up over time, is that the left hand is usually perched over the q-w-e-r-t-y side of the keyboard, which also act as movement keys (just like the arrow keys and the pad), which then give very quick access to the number keys one row up. Is that right? If it is, I could re-program the keys on the right side of the keyboard to mirror those on the left and perhaps start learning that.
I'm open to all suggestions and techniques that might help, because right now JB is pretty fed up with losing matches.
Ok, boring stuff over. I'll start a second post to catch everyone up on the fun things JB was up to on Wednesday.
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I use my mouse for turning and auto running and clicking on a few commands that I use infrequently. I move forward with W, backward with S and strafe left and right with Q and E. I have the abilities I use most often bound on R, A, D, 1, 2, 3, 4. When I switch characters though things sometimes aren't set-up properly and I haven't taken the time to change them, so sometimes when in a bind I click. I put my mouse on the fastest possible speed so if I do end up clicking I can still make really quick movements, though not as fast as key bindings are. The key to melee pvp combat is to keep moving and the best way I have found to do that is moving back and forward with the W and S keys while doing a little strafing at the same time. It can be tough to learn, but once you get it down it makes it a lot easier for you to hit people and for them to not hit you. I am not sure how jousting is as I haven't had that opportunity yet, but you should try moving back and forward continuously with your version of W and S while turning with your mouse occasionally and still clicking your abilities or binding them on keys next to your version of W and S. Never stop moving though. You could theoretically just use auto run and then only have to worry about turning with the mouse and selecting your key bindings with the right hand. That would probably be the easiest way to do it, but you would just have to be quick with the mouse turning to always be in your desired range. If you have a fast mouse it is really is to jump while running and turn around 180 degrees and keep on battling… Good luck and sorry for the wall of text! :)
ReplyDeleteThe second to last sentence should read: "If you have a fast mouse it is really EASY..."
ReplyDeleteObviously you must need to mouse right handed like the rest of us normal folks do. :) Though I can also mouse lefted handed pretty well also. When I game I use the wasdqe keys for moving for the most part and then use the mouse to click on the hotbars to fire things off. Your best bet might be to map ijkluo to movement, though that would take some getting used to. You would be doomed in DDO as double mouse click there doesn't move you you have to use the keyboard.
ReplyDeleteWow, I did a little testing of some of those moves you talked about, erik, and I discovered something interesting. I understand strafing, but I could not really fathom how that was used for anything but an auto-attack. Why? Because I use the arrow keys. You can't strafe with arrow keys alone (at least not my arrow keys). To strafe I must be moving forward using the mouse and then hold down the up arrow plus either the left or right arrow. If I don't use the mouse I turn instead of strafe. There's not much of a way to use mouse clicks or even keyboard clicks when strafing that way. When I used the letter keys without the mouse, I was able to strafe just by holding down w-q or w-e for left or right strafe. And it leaves my mouse hand free for clicking or for additional movement.
ReplyDeleteThe move that I don't understand the value of is the "jump and turn" move. The other jousters made constant use of that. With my mouse I can turn on a dime without having to do any jumping, which would require an extra keypress (space bar in WoW). So why do it?
Finally, erik, I think you have a good config already for jousting. You are comfortable using keys 1-4 for your abilities, and those are the same keys you would use for the abilities you get when mounted. The npc tends to either move forward (when in melee) or veer off to get range to shield-break and/or charge. Other than that, the npc doesn't have much in the way of moves, and will continue to try to get range for a Charge unless you close to melee range.
Martin, I do think I'll have to reconfig some keys and try to use those instead of the arrow keys. That right hand of mine is pretty set in it's ways, though, so this could be an interesting experiment. Then again, there was a time when I didn't have the number pad stocked with macros, either, and now it's all muscle memory. I think of a spell, and the fingers move without me thinking about it or looking at where they should land.
I'm sending JB out there again.
I have decided to use the q-w-e and a-s-d keys rather than screw with reconfiguring the keyboard, which could have unintended consequences. To make that work I will have to retrain myself to use those keys instead of the arrow keys even when doing things other than jousting. A hour of frustrating jousting has left my right wrist and fingers strained from the change in angles and positioning, and my right hand still wants to find the arrow keys the second I stop thinking about it. JB managed to win one match. I guess that's something. There's no light at the end of the tunnel yet, but I'm going to try to stick with it.
ReplyDeleteI think the jumping comes from being able to run from someone as a hunter and turn 360 degrees in the air as to keep running but at the same time getting off an arcane shot by facing the enemy. I have never realyl mastered that, but it works. :) Not sure that would help you in jousting though. Did JB complete the conquest pit chain in Grizzly Hills? I have been trying to solo it with DER, but can't get past the second boss. I tried to get a group, but no one is ever around or willing. Maybe JB and DER can meet up to know that chain out! It gives a ton of xp and gold and you end up getting to kill the leader of Conquest Hold and then the town phases. Let me know!
ReplyDeleteI was going to ask if you wanted to do those together. I haven't tried them but I think the two of us would have a chance. Next time we are on together lets do it! There is another one like it in Zul'Drak too when you get there. I might need them to get the quest achievement for that zone.
ReplyDeleteI missed this last comment until now, so next tiem we are on together we can do the chain in Grizzly Hills. I didn't know that JB hadn't done it yet! :)
ReplyDelete